donotdisturb
 Joined: 20/05/07
Places: 14598
Userlevel: -2 |
| 18 years ago |
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| I believe it would be very useful to ban the most filthy vandals (by their nicknames or similarly, because banning by IP address may be inefficient). Vandals made known to Wikimapians at the forum must be prevented from their further malicious activity. Why should we be exposed to their attacks any longer? Your feedback is highly appreciated. |
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onlooker
 Joined: 25/09/07
Places: 2896
Userlevel: -2 |
| 18 years ago |
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| I couldn't agree more. |
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allgaiar
Joined: 29/07/07
Places: 16056
Userlevel: -2 |
| 18 years ago |
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| donotdisturb..foll agreement with Your idea- |
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andreykor
Joined: 15/06/07
Places: 125
Userlevel: -2 |
| 18 years ago |
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| I agree too. It will help us to fight the vandals. |
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x-Toryu
 Joined: 11/10/06
Places: 1102
Userlevel: -2 |
| 18 years ago |
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| I agree Alexey. Admins may simply change their passwords and alter emails they used for registration. This way they will not be able to log-in and to retrieve the new password. Deleting their user accounts is not a good idea, IMHO. Via their personal panels we can monitor their activity, delete spam and revert vandalism of places. |
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donotdisturb
Joined: 20/05/07
Places: 14598
Userlevel: -2 |
| 18 years ago |
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| Good news: koriakine just responded to me that he would implement all necessary antivandal tools and would keep us informed. Hope springs eternal? |
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koriakine
Joined: 07/05/06
Places: 240
Wikimapia team |
| 18 years ago |
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Yes, what steps we are planning to introduce soon to calm down many vandals:
1. I am not sure about limiting of adding new places (correct me), but there must be limit on edit places to level 0 users. For example, one place at a 3 minute or so... Anyhow, we'll tune these and further limitations.
2. Level 2+ user may ban/make level 0 users. Also they will have possibility to ban unregistered IP for some time. I am not sure if it's good to show users IP.
p.s. This PLZendran makes me sick. |
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onlooker
Joined: 25/09/07
Places: 2896
Userlevel: -2 |
| 18 years ago |
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If and when level 3 is implemented, I would suggest that the number of such persons
should be limited. The trial period before being approved ought to be long enough that
one is sure of the "character" of the future performance. |
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ArnoutSteenhoek
Joined: 10/05/07
Places: 5091
Userlevel: -2 |
| 18 years ago |
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| Koriakine, how many level 2+ users are registered? |
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donotdisturb
Joined: 20/05/07
Places: 14598
Userlevel: -2 |
| 18 years ago |
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| To onlooker: "If and when" level 3 is implenented: In addition to the above I suppose that level 2 users may be promoted to level 3 by recommendations of level 2 users or even be elected by their voting. In addition, "geographical principle" may be applied here, say, a level 2 user who has been active within a geographic area (city, region, country) and gained Wikimapians' recognition (votes, other users' referrals, activity at the forum, etc.) is to be nominated for level 3 and then assigned or voted. Worth discussing? |
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x-Toryu
Joined: 11/10/06
Places: 1102
Userlevel: -2 |
| 18 years ago |
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"1. I am not sure about limiting of adding new places (correct me), but there must be limit on edit places to level 0 users. For example, one place at a 3 minute or so... Anyhow, we'll tune these and further limitations."
- I think that this is fine idea to limit actions of unregistered and level 0 users to one creation/edit per 3-5 minutes.
"2. Level 2+ user may ban/make level 0 users. Also they will have possibility to ban unregistered IP for some time."
- IMHO, this function it too powerful for level 2 users. Maybe it should be featured to level 3 only.
"I am not sure if it's good to show users IP."
- I think that it is good to show IPs of un-regs, and to allow temporary IP blocking by level 3 users. Showing IP may encourage un-regs to register. Wikipedia is showing IPs.
"If and when level 3 is implemented, I would suggest that the number of such persons
should be limited."
- this matter was discussed here <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="www.wikimapia.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=350">www.wikimapia.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=350<;!-- m --> and I agree with you onlooker
The trial period before being approved ought to be long enough that one is sure of the "character" of the future performance.
- I fully agree.
"Koriakine, how many level 2+ users are registered?"
- I asked the same question about number of level 1 & level 2 users long time ago. |
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x-Toryu
Joined: 11/10/06
Places: 1102
Userlevel: -2 |
| 18 years ago |
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"To onlooker: "If and when" level 3 is implenented: In addition to the above I suppose that level 2 users may be promoted to level 3 by recommendations of level 2 users or even be elected by their voting. In addition, "geographical principle" may be applied here, say, a level 2 user who has been active within a geographic area (city, region, country) and gained Wikimapians' recognition (votes, other users' referrals, activity at the forum, etc.) is to be nominated for level 3 and then assigned or voted. Worth discussing?"
- see <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="www.wikimapia.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=350">www.wikimapia.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=350<;!-- m --> |
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MHibbs
Joined: 20/10/06
Places: 2626
Userlevel: -2 |
| 18 years ago |
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It's good to hear from Korakine that the issue is being addressed. I agree with X-Toryu that giving all level 2 users ban/block power is too much, that kind of ability should be left to the qualified users & admins, as voted by members of the site & community.
Either way, any help we can get would be great. |
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Teresa
 Joined: 16/10/06
Places: 10868
Userlevel: -2 |
| 18 years ago |
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I do think there should be another level of users. But that however is raising many more questions.
"The trial period before being approved ought to be long enough that one is sure of the "character" of the future performance."
- How and what criteria is the 'character' being accessed?
"that level 2 users may be promoted to level 3 by recommendations of level 2 users or even be elected by their voting."
- Is there a starting point for the numbers of votes? I am not even absolutely sure how one get voted by other users, apart from one get noticed by using the forum. There are many other users who perhaps do not frequent the forum much but they are doing good work for Wikimapia. But because of their lack of usage of the forum they might not get noticed much and therefore not getting many votes. They will for no fault of their own never or have great difficulty be promoted to level 3. This does not seem to be fair.
These are just a few points that came to me as I was reading the various comments. I agree strongly this is a topic needed to be discussed and I look forward to hear many more points of views. I could be wrong in what I mentioned.
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Martin67
Joined: 06/12/06
Places: 7895
Userlevel: -2 |
| 18 years ago |
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Hello everyone,
There is an unregistered user (Piefre Jambon Hiskarney) that is messing around in this city.
He as put some bad comments in some posts like in these two exemples:
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="www.wikimapia.org/#lat=48.292331&;lon=-70.643463&z=10&l=2&m=s&v=2&show=/5460399/">www.wikimapia.org/#lat=48.292331 ... =/5460399/<!-- m -->
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="www.wikimapia.org/#lat=48.422109&;lon=-71.052961&z=15&l=2&m=s&v=2&show=/1844760/">www.wikimapia.org/#lat=48.422109 ... =/1844760/<!-- m -->
althought being in French, his comments are very mean (bad) and directly meant to people he hates.
Is there any ways for that guy to never (i mean never) become a registered user ?
He is going to be very bad to the Communauty of Wikimapia if he does register...
Thanks in advance !
Martin |
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stcraftie59
 Joined: 11/02/07
Places: 4441
Userlevel: -2 |
| 18 years ago |
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We need to "post" users that are doing a good job out there. I recently posted user sturmovik, I thought his work was excelent. AliceH is very inquisitive, a sign of a good user.
I look around, find a user with a good tag, then read the comments they have left on other peoples tags. If they look good, I look at edits randomly. When I am certain that the user is good, I send them a message about the forum.
A lot of people do not know about the internal mail. David Cannon sent the first message to me, about fixing one of my tags. Totally blew me away.
That's just my opinion, I could be wrong. :o)
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stcraftie59
Joined: 11/02/07
Places: 4441
Userlevel: -2 |
| 18 years ago |
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| Perhaps a paragraph on the internal e-mail should be added to the FAQ? |
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B3Fiend
 Joined: 08/09/07
Places: 2317
Userlevel: -2 |
| 18 years ago |
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Here's a passing thought... Perhaps new user levels can have a "maximum allowed/edited places" per-day quota allocated, which can be increased as they gain respect (approved/non-deleted places/positive votes).
This would automatically throttle the amount of damage any one person can do, until a time that they have proven their responsibility. Once they earn being privileged, the auotas can be removed. |
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stcraftie59
Joined: 11/02/07
Places: 4441
Userlevel: -2 |
| 18 years ago |
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I agree with B3Fiend, but how do they get noticed? How will we vote for someone we don't know about?
This is an attractive idea, but the rough points need to be worked out. I think B3Fiend should start a new thread in Feature discussion and requests to discuss this.
That's just my opinion, I could be wrong. :o) |
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B3Fiend
Joined: 08/09/07
Places: 2317
Userlevel: -2 |
| 18 years ago |
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As far as tracking IPs but being concerned about displaying the IP publicly, if the server is running *nix you could generate a crypt() hash from the IP, and display the hashed result string. This would generate a unique string to display for each IP without actually showing the IP...
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B3Fiend
Joined: 08/09/07
Places: 2317
Userlevel: -2 |
| 18 years ago |
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[I agree with B3Fiend, but how do they get noticed? How will we vote for someone we don't know about?]
It wouldn't be up to voting for the user... The process could use the existing per-place and per-user voting. I'm not sure how tracking edits would work, though. |
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B3Fiend
Joined: 08/09/07
Places: 2317
Userlevel: -2 |
| 18 years ago |
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SSpeaking of per-userlevel action delays, is it possible to reduce the delay between actions for priveleged users? droppinng it by just a few seconds would really help in the "my house" cleanup efforts, so I don't have to count to 5 before pressing Enter... :o)
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x-Toryu
Joined: 11/10/06
Places: 1102
Userlevel: -2 |
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MHibbs
Joined: 20/10/06
Places: 2626
Userlevel: -2 |
| 18 years ago |
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"I reiterate my point: banning users has demonstrably failed to work: e.g. PKZendran."
How true, but the way banning users COULD work is by taking somebody like PKZendran, who had alot of posts/edits and a high user level with his account, and reduce them to creating a new account as a level 0 user. IF the semi-protected system was upgraded to only allow level 2 & higher users to edit posts, it could stop somebody like PKZendran from simply making a new account and vandalizing posts again.
With new users, I agree with B3Fiend that a maximum allowable new post/edit post cap be placed until the user demonstrates their responsibility.
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gimboid13
 Joined: 11/02/07
Places: 298
Userlevel: -2 |
| 18 years ago |
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| An IP address or IP range block should deal with serial pests like Zendran. |
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bard
 Joined: 15/10/06
Places: 2632
Userlevel: -2 |
| 18 years ago |
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"Has experience not taught us that this remedy is ineffective? Consider the case of PKZendran"
Username banning and IP banning are meant to be obstacles, not catch-all crime nets. If vandals are forced to create new accounts, use proxies, go to public libraries, etc., to evade a ban, then they're more likely to decide that vandalism isn't worth the trouble.
We'll never end vandalism; we can only hope to reduce the rate at which it happens.
Think of locking your house door or car door. The lock won't keep out skilled burglars -- but without the lock, *anyone* can get in. |
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bard
Joined: 15/10/06
Places: 2632
Userlevel: -2 |
| 18 years ago |
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By the way, dynamic IP addresses do not necessarily change often. For broadband modems, they usually change rarely. Even if broadband users restart their modems, the DHCP lease tends to be long enough that they will pick up the same IP again.
That's how I understand it, anyway. Correct me if I'm wrong. |
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gimboid13
Joined: 11/02/07
Places: 298
Userlevel: -2 |
| 18 years ago |
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First to admit I'm no expert either but I think Wikipedia uses IP address blocks to keep the pests under control. A temporary block is usually applied first so as not to inconvenience others unnecessarily. Anyone else affected by the ban can apply to have it removed.
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x-Toryu
Joined: 11/10/06
Places: 1102
Userlevel: -2 |
| 18 years ago |
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"By the way, dynamic IP addresses do not necessarily change often. For broadband modems, they usually change rarely. Even if broadband users restart their modems, the DHCP lease tends to be long enough that they will pick up the same IP again.
That's how I understand it, anyway. Correct me if I'm wrong."
- you are right. Some time ago I used a broadband modem and usually I was assigned to the same IP after re-connecting.
"But how would you decide what to do when people start screaming for an IP ban?"
- a very interesting question Peter. |
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koriakine
Joined: 07/05/06
Places: 240
Wikimapia team |
| 18 years ago |
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Just to mention - limits wont affect users when they are viewing information, so "screamings" will be minimized.
Total users in database 153000.
Level +2 users - 310. |
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x-Toryu
Joined: 11/10/06
Places: 1102
Userlevel: -2 |
| 18 years ago |
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"Total users in database 153000.
Level +2 users - 310."
- wow, I was sure that there are more level 2 users, 500-1000 or even more. |
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onlooker
Joined: 25/09/07
Places: 2896
Userlevel: -2 |
| 18 years ago |
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By hard work.
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